Photo of Boeke, the Poodle/Wetterhoun cross

The First ISSA Outcrossing Project - FAQ

The first dog to be crossed into our ISSA Shiloh Shepherd gene pool is Boeke. Boeke is the product of a different outcrossing project run by the Dutch breed club for the Wetterhoun (Dutch Water Dog). He is more like his show Poodle father than his Wetterhoun mother, so the Wetterhoun club will not use him--but we think he suits our purposes well. Please read on for answers to some of the questions our Board and Breeders asked when we first brought Boeke up for consideration!

Follow the Boeke outcross pups on their blog, here!

FREQUENTLY-ASKED QUESTIONS

Q: Why did you choose to outcross, to crossbreed, at all?

A: Shilohs are a pretty healthy breed right now, but if we don't introduce new blood we won’t remain so for long. It can happen to any breed: a genetic disorder will quietly spread and spread, until it becomes so widespread, it can not be simply "bred away from." We are choosing to outcross BEFORE things get so serious. We are a very small breed, and feel it is necessary to be proactive about keeping our health.

Q: But why don’t you just use a German shepherd? Isn’t your breed based on that anyway?

A: Because Shilohs are so closely related to German shepherds, crossbreeding to a German shepherd would not add much diversity or many fresh genes. In addition, they have the same genetic diseases that Shilohs do. Taken together, we would not be able to produce significantly healthier dogs by adding a GSD outcross.

Q: But…what if this doesn't work as intended, and we don’t get the desired results with this outcross?

A: These pups will have to complete the same assessments and have the same required health testing we require in all of our breeding stock. If they do not pass their health testing or their temperament testing, or develop an unforeseen health problem, then they will not be used. It's back to the drawing board, and we will research and utilize a different outcross.

That said, this outcross has been carefully chosen, after much research. We do not expect to see issues, or we would not consider moving forward with it.

Q: But will this, or any outcross end up behind all Shilohs?

A: No—at least, certainly not for a long time. We are going to try very hard to limit usage of the outcross stock from the first three generations, and we are still planning most breedings with no outcross blood while the outcross is integrated, so that there will be “pure” Shilohs to breed to. The goal is to spread the outcross very slowly, so that it is not behind too many lines too quickly.

Q: Okay, I’ll bite. Poodle/Wetterhoun? Why that?

A: Here there are a couple of reasons we feel that this cross is a good one for Shilohs.

First is that we feel this is a good choice to add genetic diversity from a combination of breeds not closely related to our dogs. Genetically, the German shepherd and the Mastiff breeds are closest to the Shiloh; the sporting/hunting breeds are more unrelated, so we stand to gain significant fresh genetic material from these breeds.

Second, we wanted to add a breed or combination that did not have the genetic disorders we see in Shilohs, so that we can reduce the genetic diseases in our breed. The Poodle and Wetterhoun have very few disorders in common with Shilohs.

Q: Why did you choose the product of another outcrossing program instead of a purebred?

A: Adding a first-generation crossbreed from a different program gives us fresh genes from two breeds instead of only one. Because Boeke is a crossbreed, he is more likely to have a mix of different alleles on each gene than, say a purebred Poodle or Wetterhound would be.

Also, we then have the chance to gain traits we like from both breeds. For example, Boeke should carry the genes for the wide skull, muzzle, and heavy build of the Wetterhoun, but has the intelligence, trainability, size, leg, and movement of his show poodle father.

Q: What makes Boeke himself a good choice?

Boeke takes after his father’s temperament and brings us fresh genes while reinforcing the people-loving, intelligent and easy-to-train nature of our breed. He is a confident dog who likes people and gets along well with other dogs. He's also not much smaller than our Shilohs, so we should regain proper height quickly!

For health, one of our reasons for outcrossing is to gain better heart health for our breed. Boeke's lines are free from heart issues for three generations behind him. We also wanted to correct some structural weaknesses in our breed, specifically receding lower jaw and cow hocks. Boeke has a better lower jaw and does not possess the muscling problem that causes most of the cow hocks in our Shilohs.

Q: What kind of health data do you have on this dog and his ancestry?

A: Because of the high standards for outcrossing programs in the Netherlands, we have access to an unprecedented amount of information about the history and health of these dogs and their ancestors for 10 to 12 generations! In addition, 100% of the pups in Boeke’s litter of nine pups have had both hips and elbows x-rayed, with all passing.

It is very rare to find this high level of documentation in a breeding program. All of this helps us know exactly what we are adding into our gene pool.

Q: Okay, fine, so the health is good and the temperaments are good too. But what about that curly coat?

A: The curly coat is a recessive trait; from the Wetterhoun Boeke also has a more normal double coat, though wavy. In the first generation we will see some pups which will have the Poodle "beard," which is a dominant trait, but the coats should be more of a wavy version of the normal Shiloh coat. By selecting away from the beard and wavy coat we will be able to return to a normal Shiloh shepherd coat by the 2nd or 3rd generation.

Q: How about the ears? How long will it take to make them smaller and get them to stand?

A: The ears should be smaller and start to stand by the 3rd generation. Our European population has lots of small, strong ears to breed to, so we may get lucky and even see some in the 2nd generation!

Q: But that tail! That’s not like a shepherd. How long will it take to correct that?

A: How the tail is carried is easiest to correct, and should be significantly better by the second generation. The curl in the tail will likely take three generations to correct to “normal Shiloh” standards. A lot of this will rely on breeders choosing appropriate stock with good tails to breed to.

Q: How do you know that you can keep the health you get from this cross?

A: Our Genetic Diversity Study with the University of California – Davis has allowed us to map groups of genes in every breeding dog in our pool—and also in the pups from this match! We will be able to actually see the gene groups we get that are different, and we will be able to use this information to help choose the pups who continue in the breeding program who carry more of Boeke’s genes. Because so few of the genes in a dog have anything to do with appearance, we will be able to keep the genetic diversity for health, but at the same time return to the Shiloh appearance and temperament.

Q: So what I am hearing is that, by the 3rd generation from using Boeke, the dogs should look and act like Shilohs again, but be healthier?

A: EXACTLY! If you think about it, the 3rd generation will be 88% Shiloh shepherd, and only 6% Poodle and 6% Wetterhoun…so it does make sense that they would look and act like Shilohs.


© 2016 International Shiloh Shepherd Alliance, Inc.